Forum Thread

This might be a strange suggestion coming from me, as I'm the one who initiated the idea of a Hangman Helper 3 years back and I just implemented the chatbot version of it, BUT, I do enforce fair play, and the hangman helper is just too overpowered so I'd like to decommission it.

Hangman is definitely the quickest way to make Game Chips IF you can sustain a long chain, but it is hard to get into as most people don't actually know all Pokemon names or some of the obscure hangman words. So for those who use the Hangman Helper it is a huge advantage to those who don't, either because they do not know about it or they do not want to use it (because it does take away from the challenge of the game).

In the place of the Hangman Helper I'd suggest to make the game slightly easier to get started with by adding one or both of the following features:

1. Buying a hint
At the cost of 300 Game Chips you can buy a hint, which gives you a correct letter for the current word.
I think you should only be able to do this once for every word

2. Buying an extra life
At the cost of 100 Game Chips you are given an extra life.
Every new life doubles in cost, so the second one would cost 200, then 400, then 800, then 1600, etc.
Perhaps there can also be a limit on the number of extra lives you can buy, but I don't know if this is necessary.
Visually an extra life would make the hangman drawing go back one (so if it had its arms before, an extra life will remove the arms again)

Another idea for both of these suggestions would be that the cost scales with your current chain length, so that things are cheap at the start, but they could get very expensive to buy for longer chains (above 2500 Game Chips). This would discourage you to buy them so to reach very high chains you'll need the skill.

A side suggestion: Hangman is currently the only game that does not require an entry fee, and as it is the most profitable, I think a small fee of 50 Game Chips would not hurt.

All the prices listed here are definitely negotiable, feel free to give your thoughts in the comments!

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Thread has received Mod approval and is now open for discussion.

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I don’t mind this idea as long as it doesn’t decommission or remove the hangman helper completely.
I mean if someone doesn’t want to use the helper it’s great suggestion for them.
But some of us do like the helper. So..

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I just think the helper is a bit too powerful, it is quite difficult to lose as long as you don't miss click...
This suggestion is here to make Hangman more doable for users new to the words at Hangman without the help of the Hangman Helper.

I personally think it'd be more fun to guess the word legit, by buying extra lives, than getting the answer given to me by a helper.

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I only even bother with Hangman because of the helper and even then, I still don't do it very often. I do try to do it without it and only use it when absolutely necessary however.

For me, the biggest annoyance about Hangman is not the losing it's the cooldown between games when you lose, especially sine I don't have much patience for it in the first place.

If the Helper was decommissioned, I would not play with the exception of the day it's necessary in the Advent Calendar and I know there are several others that wouldn't either. In fact, even with the helper, some of those people still won't even do it on the Advent event.

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I don't like the cost of buying a hint because if it's 300 game chips we should be able to at least earn that back if we get the right answer other wise I don't think people would ever use it. I have used the hangman helper but I have also lost because of it as well when I get one where there are many possible answers.

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@Zellane: Yes, I also only use the helper when I'm at my last life, but it is still unfair to others who don't know about it. If the helper really is allowed, then I think there should be a link to it on the Hangman page itself.

@Xerao: I think it should be at least a bit expensive since you can win 2500 Game Chips at high chains, so if 1 hint can save your streak, then I think it is worth it, even if it's expensive. But yeah, maybe it is better if it's lower, I don't know.

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Buy-In: Definitely agree.
The Hint/Extra Life: There are many times when one letter makes the difference. This would be very helpful.

Hangman Helper: I personally am too stubborn to use it, BUT...Perhaps we can compromise? Since the existence of the Helper seems to only be a problem due to how profitable Hangman is for those who use it, maybe we can do this?

It should be possible to code a form of the Helper onto the Hangman page itself.
It should also be possible for said code to track when someone utilizes that feature.
If both of the above hold true, then
Those who choose not to take the help earn 100% for that round
While those who do take the help earn 50-75% for that round.
Could vary based on how many times you use the Feature in a single session?
Though that might have to have a limit of like 40% or something.

That way, there remains a fair balance

Edit: Also like to point out that I really don't see a problem with it existing either way. If I had the patience and wasn't so stubborn, I'd definitely use the Helper so I can make enough Game Chips to purchase all the Mewtons and the Shiny Legends. And, as someone else stated. When you take into consideration the language differences of the words, the Helper is more beneficial than detrimental.

And I mean, yeah. I know you're referring to people like CatLady (sorry!) who hunt the Shiny Legends for people. But there are very few people with her determination, so all things considered, without as much profit as its being made out to have, there's really no reason to remove it.

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@wildfyre: I see what you're saying, but in my opinion the whole idea of the helper clashes with the idea of the game itself.
The game is so that you make educated* guesses of which letter to choose based on the length of the word and which letters you've already tried.
The helper just gives you the correct word over 90% of the time after a few guesses, so all that's left is clicking all the necessary letters.

*educated in the sense that you learn the possible words with practice & experience

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Quote

I only even bother with Hangman because of the helper and even then, I still don't do it very often. I do try to do it without it and only use it when absolutely necessary however.

For me, the biggest annoyance about Hangman is not the losing it's the cooldown between games when you lose, especially since I don't have much patience for it in the first place.

If the Helper was decommissioned, I would not play with the exception of the day it's necessary in the Advent Calendar and I know there are several others that wouldn't either. In fact, even with the helper, some of those people still won't even do it on the Advent event.

Yes. Exactly. I only use it if needs be or when I get sudden burst of energy and decide i want the shiny dogs.
But i know mw and most of the site will just let it be and never use it if it didn't have an helper.

Out of 1000+ people who i know on this site only 2 i know to play hangman without helper. so...

Adding the helper in the system? not a good idea. nope.
decreasing the amount received. bigger no.

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Honestly, several games could do with an update.

I agree with Zellane, I don't really get why there's a cool down, the first 10 - 20 Hangman games barely give you any GC anyway.
The concentration game as well, don't rlly know why there is a cool down needed.
The Higher or Lower game has the worst statistics ever, there's a 12.5 / 87.5 win/loss ratio so you basically play to lose your GC. I don't know why this number isn't closer to 50/50.. (I might make a suggestion on this in the future)

@Taavi: about the reward you get for Hangman, I feel like when you get to those high streaks, the reward is quite high, especially considering 90% probably get there by use of the helper. Without it it's quite hard to get to a streak of 100, making the fairness between each player* even worse.
There could be several changes considered:
Increase the reward for lower streaks so it's not that much of a hit if you lose
Have a highest reward peak around streak 100 and decrease slightly from there (so the total reward from 1-100 = 101-200 = 201-300 = etc) so if you can reach a streak of 100 you again don't have anything to lose if your streak is ended. The total reward for 100 levels still could be 2500x100
I'm not saying these ideas are the solution, they are just possibilities

*why was the "between each player" removed in the rules? xD Just a random sidenote ^^

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I already knew and had a good feeling that the community was going to be split on a suggestion like this, but it's rightfully so as to why. My Hangman Helper is indeed a wonderful tool I have reworked and coded more and many people love using it. However, me also being the person who had took the original Helper and updated it, brought it to be much easier to use, and have lots of new features. I do think that I should join in the discussion or at the very least give my thoughts on the matter.

First, I would like to get out of the way that I would be in full compliance to take down the Hangman Helper, at least the version 2 one I had made. That's if changes like this would come to Hangman and I would be asked to cease operation of my Helper. While this wouldn't get rid of the Hangman Helper completely, the version 2 wouldn't exist which most people do use and it contains just about all the words. The older version is missing hundreds of words and wouldn't be as consistent to be using.

Anyway, personally I'm split on this as much as I don't even really bother much with doing Hangman myself. I only have 226 Hangmen solved in my entire PH lifetime. Regardless of whatever happens it truly doesn't affect me. None of what I would be saying would hold any bias. This is something I feel that's important to note.

Furthermore, I do feel as if Hangman had stuff like this in the first place then helpers would have never really existed or would of seen any surface. Now that there are helpers exist, they are just this gray area because you can say that it's overpowered through the use of them, but then again you could say that they have more of an educational use and purpose.

I think if you want a fair and realistic solution then this is what I would personally propose. Add in a copy button and or detect if a user if copying content off of the page. Reduce the reward given if this holds true. Most people using the Hangman Helper are copy and pasting in words because it's most convenient to be doing it that way. A smaller percentage would actually be spending the time to type out anything and even if you do type most people are likely to make mistakes by doing so. This would be easy to implement and I don't think anyone would mind it as it would better help create fair play, which I don't think majority is really against. It would make it fair for the people utilizing the Hangman Helper versus those who do not decide to use it. You could add in a solution like that and even make changes to Hangman based off of a suggestion like this, and nobody would really complain. I would foresee most people being content with a solution like this or similar if anything would be changing.

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For people like me the helper is extremely helpful-
As I am on a Lugia run for the shiny and I need a way to make game chips fast and Im horrible at hangman

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Also- there are also a lot of English Second Language people on this site, and the hangman is in English (as is the site) please correct me if I'm wrong here so having the helper would be nice for those who learned Pokemon/items/etc in other languages.

As someone who uses hangman chips for non-personal gain, if something like buying hints, extra lives with GameChips would probably make me stop trying to save up for birthday surprises and Christmas presents from the GCE.

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Please don't discontinue the helpers.

Hangman is just not a fun game in my opinion. The only reason I play is to gain game chips, but that shouldn't be a bad thing. It may currently be the most consistent way to earn them, but it's still slow. It caps at like, what, 1,500 game chips per correct word? Maybe it's 2,500, but either way.

Considering all the things you would need a lot of game chips for [shiny dog trio, shiny manaphy, all of the shiny mewton, on top of the uncertain ones like lugia's lottery and the magearna raffle, we all really need those game chips & a good, consistent way to grind for them - I don't want to spend the chips I've earned for just a hint, I want to spend those game chips on those over the top expensive Pokemon.

I wouldn't touch hangman again if those helpers were removed. :/

1) I dont see why we should pay a fee for a hangman game, chips are hard to collect already, i find it better free but this is my opinion.

2) not everybody knows the english pokemon terms so lowering the win fee because they use a helper is a bit harsh i find.
I think it would rather be much better to put the helper link in the game itself therefore everybody can use it as he pleases.

Counter suggestion:
If the helper bother people why not make a nuzlocke hangman type?
Using the helper is forbidden, buy extra letter or lives with chips as suggested by swampfall to avoid a chain break.
BUT get better rewards because your on the tough version off it, like alot more chipz or why not even random gems as a reward,!
Like that the true hangman fans are happy and the one's slowly grinding to get a puppy or kitty from the shop arent punished either, no?

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What if we nerf the Helper? Make it so it can only work if at least 2 letters have been correctly guessed on words that are 4 to 6 letters long and 5 letters guessed correctly on words that are 7 letters or longer? That way it's clear there's been some effort made.

Alternatively what if Helper could only be used if you were on your last life? I have no idea how that could be implemented into the current program but it would definitely nerf it while still letting it fulfill the ultimate goal of being helpful.

Personally I have a hard time with hangman and like using the helper to narrow down results when I'm near the end of my lives. I would rather not see it disappear permanently. If nerfed it would still be useful but not overly powerful. It'd be up to Ephenia to do that, however.

Unless a Hangman Helper is built into the website which would make it easier to implement the last life savior. Perhaps something like "you're on your last life. Would you like to spend x game chips to use the Hangman Helper?" And then it displays the possible outcomes based only on the guessed correctly letters, not the incorrectly guessed letters, that way there's still the effort of eliminating the impossible answers to the player. And if the player doesn't like the Helper they can disable to option in settings.

I dont like the idea of spending game chips to guess a letter or buy a life for that single level. If there was a way to add another life for several rounds at a slightly higher cost, then maybe. Since the cooldown is 25 seconds if you lose I think 25 game chips would be enough to start a round. Or again the ability to buy in to 10 rounds at a time (same amount of rounds for added life). After 10 rounds you have to buy in again but it doesn't reset your chain. Also, a link to the list of all current words in the system from the page would eliminate some of the need for a Helper.

I agree with Furret, if the helper went away I would never play hangman. My mind just doesn't work in the sort of way required to guess words, and a LOT of words have the same vowels and length, so you might lose anyways trying to guess the specific one.

I don't even play much anyways cause hangman is incredibly boring, but without the helper I'm sure there's be a huge decrease in players.

And the winnings are so small anyways... At max chance it takes 40 correct guesses to get 100,000 GC. That's 400 words per million GC. It's slow and boring. And if you break your streak you have to waste even more time getting 100 correct words for max chance again.

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Well true. If they do decide to remove the helper we won’t really have a choice but to comply (or use secret helpers.)

In terms of fairness.
Let’s be honest. 80% of the site already knows about helpers existing. Many people even have them listed in their contact panels (which is against the rules). What happens mostly is people lose the link and ask. Otherwise I don’t think anybody doesn’t know about this helpers except newbies
Which tbh easily ge the link since people are always asking for help in notifications anyways.
People who don’t use an helper are doing it mostly for fun. Or for the challenge.

So here’s my idea.

Instead of dropping the prize for people using the helpers instead implement a thing that detects helpers. And if you aren’t using one you get extra.
Like people get 2500 per correct word with helper after chain 100.
So if you aren’t using one you can get like 3000.

An incentive to not use an helper. Makes it a bit fair to users not using helpers and doing it the intended way.
Doesn’t negatively affect the people using helpers.
Might promote the use of playing without helpers.

I’ve done 200+ total in my life. With helpers. Imagine what that’d be without helpers.

Also agreed that the Game Center needs quite a few changes. But I don’t think we’re supposed to mention those here

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@all: Thanks for the good discussion, it is nice to hear your thoughts about this in such detail!

Quote from Furret

Hangman is just not a fun game in my opinion. The only reason I play is to gain game chips

Hmm yes, I think many have the same thoughts on the matter like you do. However, it shouldn't be an "unofficial helper" that fixes the issue, the game center itself should be changed to satisfy as many people as possible. Whether this is by including the hangman helper officially or by other means, that's up to Riako to decide.

Quote from Kaisa

As someone who uses hangman chips for non-personal gain, if something like buying hints, extra lives with GameChips would probably make me stop trying to save up for birthday surprises and Christmas presents from the GCE.

Buying hints / extra lives has a goal to improve your chances to gain more Game Chips than you have spent to buy those hints / extra lives.

Quote from Silverklauws

1) I dont see why we should pay a fee for a hangman game, chips are hard to collect already, i find it better free but this is my opinion.

The only reason I would want a small fee to start a Hangman Game is so that you need to buy your first chips with PD. Now you basically get your first chips for free using Hangman and is the feature to buy Game Chips obsolete.

Quote from Silverklauws

2) not everybody knows the english pokemon terms so lowering the win fee because they use a helper is a bit harsh i find.
I think it would rather be much better to put the helper link in the game itself therefore everybody can use it as he pleases.

As long as the helper isn't an official tool, it's nearly impossible to detect if people use it. I do agree somewhat that there should at least be a link to the hangman helper if they allow the tool.

Quote from Snomberry

I dont like the idea of spending game chips to guess a letter or buy a life for that single level. If there was a way to add another life for several rounds at a slightly higher cost, then maybe. Since the cooldown is 25 seconds if you lose I think 25 game chips would be enough to start a round. Or again the ability to buy in to 10 rounds at a time (same amount of rounds for added life). After 10 rounds you have to buy in again but it doesn't reset your chain.

You do spend less game chips than what you would win if you guess right (unless you need to buy several extra lives). But I do like your alternative as well. :)

Quote from Snomberry

Also, a link to the list of all current words in the system from the page would eliminate some of the need for a Helper.

I did think this was a possibility, but I thought part of the "fun" you get from playing Hangman is to learn new words. But I have changed my mind about that, since like others said, there are many people who've grown up with other Pokemon names, so a list of the words would be very useful to them

Quote from Oshakiel

And the winnings are so small anyways...

The problem is that the winnings are actually huge compared to what you would get if you don't reach high Hangman streaks.

@Taavi: for your suggestion to work, an official version of the helper would have to be implemented.

Also, I agree that this thread is about Hangman, but I think it's a good place to discuss the Game Center as a whole as well, as many of the arguments against this suggestion are to do with Game Chips earnings, so solving that in a way that there is no longer a need for the helper would also be a good result.

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