Forum Thread

Hi, just putting this topic up for "debate" so feel free to post what you think.
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This suggestion is mainly regarding the Fanmades section of pokeheroes. Please read this whole post (yes even if it is long) before posting your opinion I would appreciate it!

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So as you all know many users have posted their own "art shops", "avatar, signature etc. shops" and the like (myself included). As an artist I've been concerned recently about the "art theft" happening on this site.

You may be thinking "what there's thieves on this site?!" or maybe that "What's an art thief??" well allow me to explain.

Art thief: Someone who edits, redistributes, renders, claims, copies, edits, references, an artwork in anyway that does not belong to them.

And so with this definition, it's basically saying you're stealing art and selling it off again as you weren't the one to originally draw it.

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Why is this of my concern???
Well let's see.... So I'll use a scenario to explain it to you...

So about a week ago the user Novasplitz commissioned me to draw their pokemon OC. So, I did and I posted it up on the internet not merely to get an image hosting site but also to get more exposure as an artist on the web.

But that's not the point. Say if I went on a different site and I found that "hey that avatar looks awfully familiar! I think that I drew that picture!" And so, I investigate and find that I did indeed draw it but let's say "Person B" was using it as a signature of his or even worse manipulating other images of mine and making them into signatures for other people.

So then as an artist I would think "hey, I drew that for Novasplitz not for that person."
This causes problems as Novasplitz did pay me a fair sum of money to draw the OC, so why should someone else be able to use the same image for free? Also I would be quite upset if someone edited my drawings without my permission. That's because I didn't give them permission since it's my drawing and also knowing it was a commission and someone else's character I would feel like that would be quite disrespectful to my customer.

If I found out someond paid them to get an images and turn it into an avatar/signature I would think: "hey! Why is this person getting paid for something that they didn't even draw?? Why should I even spend hours drawing when all someone else does is slap a word on it and then resell it???"

Anyways try feeling empathetic towards the artist who spends hours drawing only to have their art stolen.

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Great... I've read this sob story and whats your suggestion again?

Well, my suggestion in short is simply to ban "art theft" from this site and add this to the site rules.

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So what does this mean for pokeheroes' users?
This means that you would be no longer allowed to make signatures, repost drawings or the like in the fanmade section that are not original. Meaning if you did not draw the picture you're not allowed to use it, unless you have asked the artist for permission to edit their images.


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This sounds like you're out to get the people who have these sort of threads....
I'm not. I'm trying to get this community to appreciate those artists who have worked on their pieces and would not like their art stolen. This is also because nobody seems to credit where they got the images from, which seems like the bare minimum to me to at least acknowledge you didn't draw the art.

Also I haven't mentioned any names, this thread is directed to the public.

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What about the rest of the site? Such as avatars that weren't made by users?
This is though, for me to say since I don't make the rules here. Which is why I said this topic is up for debate. I mean even I use a avatar pic that I didn't draw so I may sound like a hypocrite, but in general I think that this really is only significant to the fanmades forum for people who edit art.

Share your opinion!
So here's some discussion questions for you all:
Do you think banning art theft is a good idea?
Do you think this should be implemented to the whole site (e.g. then pokeheroes would have to provide avatars for you.)?
Should fanmades be a place for original arts and sprites only?
Is it okay to edit pictures as long you source the image?
So art theft... Yay or Nay?

As always thanks for reading! ^^ Comments are appreciated

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Sorry, but I don't support. When you put something on the internet, you run the risk of someone using it. Period. The only time this should be punished is if somebody is actually trying to make cash off of it (such as using it for commercial purposes) without the artist's permission OR if they're directly claiming it's theirs when it's not. However, if somebody is just using it as their avatar, what exactly is the problem? They're advertising your artwork and making people look it up. Isn't that a good thing? I don't see how this would do any good; it would just turn this site into another PFQ.

By this logic, we shouldn't be allowed to put any anime or pokemon images as our avatars without asking the actual company/person who made it.

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Yeah, I wouldn't really support this. It'd be hard to track down to see if that person really did steal it, since
1. They could've made a deal privately(on another site)
2. The suspect can lie of "stealing it" and might accuse another person, who might've been innocent
3. A person that does NOT play PokeHeroes might be the culprit

Also, this isn't really a site for art, and people can watermark things, so that they get their credit~

But... On the other hand, this can be pretty helpful to artist.

(Note that I'm NOT an artist!)

This is the internet and every time you draw or make something and put it on the internet, you take that risk of it being shared. However, note that I said being shared. As in, in signatures, as avatars, etc. NOT editing, selling, etc. Also, I don't like it when people are editing or selling art with the artist's name somewhere on the art. That shows ownership and you should not even share that anywhere without permission in my opinion. Even if it's small in the corner, but it still should be readable.
So, in short, unacceptable things would be:
- Editing
- Selling
- Doing ANYTHING if the art has the artist's name on it

And just sharing it as long as it doesn't have the artist's name somewhere on it would be acceptable. So, that's just my two cents.

Okay. So first of all I am NOT an artist. So obviously I wouldn't have the opinions of an artist. Most of my opinions are from what I've seen when I used to be on Tumblr and what not.

I say focus on the fanmade sections and not on avatars. Since really it's the fanmade sections that would pose the biggest problem since I've seen cases where people take a fanart, edit it, put on some words, and claims the pictures as as theirs, as well as expect PD for them, when they're not. I will say however that I think it's common courtesy to ask someone permission before you use an art that they created. At the very least sourcing the artwork is good. Like putting "this art was created by so and so" in your siggy would be good.

Now when it comes to the fanmades section. Original art only? yes. I mean that is the whole point of the art part of the section right?. Original sprites only? no. I think it's perfectly fine to use official sprites when you have your own sprite shop, because like I said, I generally don't consider using official art to be theft. So long as you're not using a fanmade sprite than it should be all good.

Unless you ask permission than no you should not edit images. Apparently a lot of Pixiv users were offended that people did that on Tumblr. Like that was saying that their image wasn't good enough or something for that matter.

So I'll say support when it comes to the fanmades section. When it comes to avatars however I'll remain neutral.

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I can see that you are trying to point out things you've noticed in the Fanmade section. I do agree that people who take other's artwork without permission and edit and resell it, should be against the rules. I sure wouldn't want anyone taking something that I worked on, and giving it to other people without giving credit, or saying that they made it themselves.

Avatars, of course, aren't really much to worry about, unless then again, someone doesn't give credit, or they say that they made it, when they did not.

I definitely support on stopping stolen art for those who re-edit and take credit for the whole thing.

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@Diana
Of course there is a risk to everything, but people do make money (virtual currency) off the signatures and avatars that are made from other's art. Also I agree with advertising people's art as a good thing but like I said, most of the time they're not credited so what good would it do if nobody knows who drew it? Also I've never played PFQ, or even taken a look at it before.

Haha, by this logic this site shouldn't even exist then either. But nintendo is credited and also pokemon/fan base things are so recognizable that it be a given that the characters do not belong to you.

@MagicalCreature
If you use "search google for this image" you'd probably be able to find the very first time the image was posted on the internet. This was lying could be avoided and I'm only really centering this towards what happens in the "fanmades" area not really avatars and such. I just put some questions up to get more feedback on what people think.

@KrazyKarp
Thanks for your comments ^^. Also I don't get why you wouldn't like people watermarking their work of art? It's like if you bring your water bottle to school and you write your name it so people know it's yours and not to be confused with someone else's or to return it to you if it gets lost/stolen.

@Angell
Thanks for the support! C: I also agree, I think fanmades would be the main concern here rather than avatars. I don't think you have to be an artist to comment on this so thanks for sharing your point of view on it ^^

@Doopliss
Thank you for understanding, and your support :)

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Ah, I forgot about watermarking. I'd put watermarking under the category of putting your name on the art to show ownership, as they're both quite similar. So no editing, sharing, or selling if the art has watermarks as well.

Quote from Yuucchii

Of course there is a risk to everything, but people do make money (virtual currency) off the signatures and avatars that are made from other's art.

...How exactly? I'm not profiting at all by having this avatar. I'm sure Golden Sun is, though. ;)

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I support that the fanmade section shouldn't include art theft, as I have seen several cases of it myself. One user even took and used an image that the original artist stated that they didn't want the image used without permission, and nobody had gotten her permission to use it anywhere.

So, my thing is that the fanmade forums shouldn't allow art theft. Not for display, not for sale (Which there is a fair amount of), and not to claim as their own.

Avatars, signatures, and the like, well, that's a bit different, as the users aren't claiming the work as their own when they post that. They are just using images that portray themselves, which I see no harm in doing, as long as the original artist doesn't state that you have to have permission before using.

I've actually started signing the work I do for myself, as well as watermarking the images I give to others, letting them have the unwatermarked version for themselves, but the watermarked version for everything else to make it that much harder for the work to be stolen and claimed as someone else's personal work.

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@Diana
I was making a reference to the art shops in the fanmades section. Indicating people on this site make PD from it.

@krazykarp
Well to me every artist should watermark their art but obviously not all do. I don't think just because you don't watermark an image doesn't make it public property. Also writing a name is much less effective since it could essilt be erased. (Sorry for that random statement XD)

@Navuso
Thank you and agreed C: I think avatars and signatures can't really be protected against 100% since it's just an image your using yourself. It's just the for profit part that bugs me the most ^^

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Concerns
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I understand where you are coming from with this. The reason I say that I understand this is because I face something along those lines with my video editing, even though the footage isn't originally mine the editing of the clips and the effects I use are what I put together. Yet there are some users who upload the video or parts of the video on their own channels and either don't give credit to the person who originally edited it together or try to take credit for it. So I understand very well how upsetting it can be where you work so hard on something and then you see someone else use that work and try to claim it as their own.


Avatars and/or Fanmade Section
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I think the focus of this should be on the fanmade section instead of avatars because when it comes to avatars there is free range to the users (who look at outside sources) and I don't think we should limit them. There are also members who may request avatars to be made by others on PokeHeroes in shops (or elsewhere). There are some shops whose owners do request that if you use their artwork in your sig or avatar that you give them credit so others know who created the artwork.


Sharing and/or Reselling Artwork
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Some people share artwork without giving the artist credit but don't have any ill intentions of calling it their own or trying to take credit for someone else's work. While others may try to open up a shop and resell artists artwork with either a few slight changes or a word or two added to it.

Creating a rule; It may be good to create a rule specifically for PokeHeroes to let users know that they can't steal and resell artwork created by others.

Like I stated above, some artist shops the owners actually state that if you use their artwork to give them credit in your sig or somewhere to let others know that the artwork is theirs. (For example I have a Sprite trainer in my gym thread post, and also on my profile, though it is small at the bottom of both I tell people that the credit of the sprite goes to the creator of the trainer Sprite.)


Artwork and Sprites
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I can understand artwork that is created like full size pictures, sigs, and avatars. These images that are created from scratch and the artist spends a lot of time on. If someone creates something like that then another person uses it and then posts it in a shop of their own trying to resell it, ya it shouldn't be allowed.

When it comes to sprites there should be a fine line between art theft and alternating/editing sprites. Since some probably use official sprites as their bases and then from there create something else different from them that doesn't look anything like the original sprite (some even use official sprites with recoloring too). (I'm using myself as a example again, I'm not too good at creating sprites from scratch however I do find templates close to the design I want to make and then from there I expand on it and create something new from it.)


Other
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Like Angell stated above I also believe its common courtesy to ask someone their permission if you plan on using or re-editing a piece of their artwork.

So in conclusion when it comes to trying to sell other artists artwork (specifically created from a member on PokeHeroes and then another reselling it on PokeHeroes), a rule could be made about stealing and reselling other artists work on PokeHeroes, and I see no problem with that since it protects the artists hard work and it also lets members know that if that happens there are consequences for it.

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i've had art i've done put in youtube videos and tumblr photosets without my permission, but to put my personal two cents in, i honestly don't care if people do that (with my art) - in the mindset of someone who puts art out for other people to enjoy, i don't mind if people use what i post, as long as they 1) aren't claiming it for their own, and b) aren't trying to sell it for profit

i'm aware that other artists are more sensitive about their work though, which is why i think that in general, people shouldn't be using any art from anyone unless they have permission from the artist, be it directly from the artist themselves, or a note that the artist has put indicating that their art is free for others to use as long as it's not being used for profit or being stolen and claimed as someone else's - it's honestly not hard to obtain permission if you know the source, and googling isn't hard - if the image is really worth using, the time it takes to get the permission will be worth it, right?

actually i think i just kind of resaid what navuso was saying there lol (darn you people making good points before i do)

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If I were an artist, I wouldn't watermark my work, mainly because I think it ruins the art. If I'm looking up Magikarp art I don't want there to be a watermark splattered onto it, visually to me it doesn't look nice.
Writing a name is less effective. However, there's bound to be someone who says "Hey, that image had a name written on it before! You can't use that!". The name in the corner usually doesn't interfere with the main parts of the art either, so visually it's pretty nice. And there's a lower chance of someone stealing it if it has a name on it than nothing at all.
So, I'm fine with both ways, I'd just prefer the name written.
Also note that I'm not an artist, I haven't graduated from stick figures, but all of this is based off of me as a person who enjoys looking at art and drawings as well as experiences I've seen with others.

Everyone has already stated the same reasons I support this for the fanmades section. c: So uh . . . support!

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actually some people give away free rt and sorry but no support from me

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ptoung- Yes, some people do, but the reason for this suggestion is for those who take other people's art, without permission. Like those who don't specifically say that they don't have a problem with you taking their work. if that even made sense

Basically, she's stating that people who take art from other's who say that their art isnt free, or those people who take it anyways, even when the person specifically said the art isn't free, would be breaking the rules.
She isn't talking about the ones who give their art out for free.

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The thing is I own a signature shop (It's bad and doesn't use art, it uses gifs and stuff ) and I don't charge money, but they can tip. I use images from google images is that art theft? Do I have to label each picture says made by blah blah blah?

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Quote from KrazyKarp

(...) And there's a lower chance of someone stealing it if it has a name on it than nothing at all.

I got to say that, from what I've seen on the three sites I use(/d) to spend most time, that this affects nothing if you include it on a corner. It looks good visually, better than dA watermark logo for example (I know it kind of ruins it but I don't want my best pieces to get easily stolen), but that's not enough. Either you put something on the main focus of the art or well...I've experienced 3 art thieves who stole art from me and one of them, after taking down what he stole from me, I noticed he re-uploaded another pic that was clearly not draw by him. The thing is, the original had a signature/name on a corner. Any kind-of-serious art thief would do what he did; cutting that part of the pic because taking out 20px is nothing almost. Sig on corner - most likely useless

Anyway I'd support this mainly for not seeing stolen art here. And the worse is when these people fake they have permission and then you discover they don't. Actually art thieves are the ones who are damaging themselves; this way they won't learn how to draw and if they are caught, that will lead them to a bad reputation (in dA there's always people who goes to thieves profiles to insult, shout, annoy etc. and that's not good either).
I don't think editing/using an art of someone else is art theft only if you have the right permission from the original artist to do so and you credit them. What I wouldn't tolerate at all is that someone makes profit of someone else's art. I've seen art thieves doing "commissions" that were nothing but throwing stolen art to their "clients" .-.; Other thing is that two persons work together on the same drawing and get certain % of profit.

My opinions on this are pretty much the same as everyone else's almostm except with the name in the corner thing, I disagree. I feel as though a watermark ruins a picture, yes, and with putting your name on it, I feel like you should hide your initials or name in the art like say you make a shaded furret (for me, I did so this is my example), you could take that shaded color and make it a bit darker but not too far off, and write your initials in the shading somewhere..

Putting your initials somewhere in the art where it can be seen but isn't flat out noticeable would be the best thing to do in my opinion.

Maybe for this suggestion as I am leaning on the support side, it'd be hard to make sure art isn't stolen on here, so what about like, for every thing you have (signatures, avatars, etc.) You should have a link in your diary or signature to the permissions for the user to use it. I've seen this on other sites and it helps a good amount. The permissions would go towards the stuff that is drawn and art. Whereas sprites and gifts, could just have a credit to it like say... A generic gif such as Pokemon or Big Bang Theory someone could just put Credit to Big Bang Theory or Pokemon. Or to the site they found it on.

And also, side note. As you used me as the example, did someone try stealing our commission as their own? My poor Aurabelle if someone did.

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