Forum Thread

This won't be very organized, it's just a place for me to jot things down, as well as rant if need be. So welcome to The Imperial Journal

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Title: concerns

Somewhat talking to myself about this. But just read a spriter's forum post which had a good point and some things on the dramablog so things are in mind.

(edit: accidentally put "tbh" twice in the same sentecnce oops)

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I know "screencaps" (screenshots as I know them by, the word "screencaps" is just weird to me oops) can be easily faked. But why would literally dozens of people waste their time to manipulate screenshots against a single user?

All sorts of sites consider screenshots evidence. Deviantart for instance uses it as a key thing, it shows trust in the community (tbh deviantart doesn't really have one anymore, it's unkempt and needs a lot of TLC, but I'm not here to talk about dA lmao). Why doesn't ph accept screenshots as evidence against a user? Especially if this site has a lot of kids on it. Yeah, they're immature, but do you really think they have the ability to manipulate things to the point of looking 100% legit?

If someone is showing you a screenshot with the name included and it looks untampered with, that should be put away as probably evidence. If there's no name included or noticeble warps or somethings looks off, discard it. Yeah sure, without live proof, it's hard to use as proper evidence. But for this certain user everyone seems to have a problem with, why let it slide? Why has no mod been around when these things have happened? Not even for one of these occurances? It makes me wonder if they have a good variety of staff? Different timezones are a thing, and it's best to use them to your advantage. Huge drama spreads like a plague so if a mod is active at the right time they're bound to catch word of it before it's deleted.

Here's an example: I'm a mod/admin of a growing adoptable group on deviantart. I am online from 8:30am-11:00pm (New York time). I'm able to take care of some of the things my peers are not around for. There are also admins who are around from 11:00pm-8:30am, but for them it's a different time. I'm sure you understand what I'm saying, right? When one mod is away, there is always another mod active. If all your mods aren't aware of a situation happening while it's happening, is that a good team? I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm just saying. Mods can be as active as they want but they can't be expected to be around 24/7. It's like clockwork, workshifts, etc. It's logical thinking. Idk if I'm making sense, but this is how I think.

In a courtroomor is someone is under investigation, there is no live evidence, yet there is evidence, you see what I'm saying? The only evidence that can be provided by user is a screenshot of what happened. I'm not sure how Pokeheroes works, but deviantart has archives. The comments, replies, and posts a user makes are all archived in their database and can be looked back on by administrators on deviantart. If people started saving things a user says or does on the wayback mahince would that not be accepted? You can't tamper with that, I know that for a fact.

Also, why does this one user have supposedly 7+ warnings? You can only give so many warnings, why continue doing so. If someone has that many warnings, they should be on a watchlist. Watch their actions as best you can. I'm not biased towards anyone, I don't let personal feelings affect my judgement. But 7+ warnings? Why are the mods being so lenient? Yes it's nice to know the mods will give you a second chance, but a seventh and counting? It does seem biased, I see why people are accusing the mods of being that way. But I imagine that's not the case. It's the fact they won't accept screenshots as evidence, and they're all presumedly not around during the chaos.

As well as a suggestion that was on the drama blog, why is there no "report feed/comment" thing? It's help a whole lot with there being "no evidence" of the occurances.

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they will also use screenshots as evidence against you the very thing they don't accept because that is very logical (Y)

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Logic seems to have varying meanings for everyone lol

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Ingnis said that some people can't afford Photoshop. That's something else to consider.

That's true, and would someone really waste money on an application, or even chance downloading a free version that may have viruses, to manipulate evidence against a person?

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And I mean there are numerous screen capture services that once you screencap whatever it may be, it sends you a link to the site that hosts it and you can just send that link, there's no way to edit the image itself. Such as Gyazo for example, you screencap, it opens your browser with the image and a link and there you go. In order to edit the image you'd have to save it and then upload it elsewhere. Tinytake is another good one too i believe, i have a few bookmarked because I have had to use gyazo for screenshots before.

Yeah, I've heard of those! And if research is done on sites like those, they can know which ones can or cannot be edited. Which is good to keep track of. Someone recommended Gyazo to someone I followed/watched/subscribed to before to help their case against someone cyberbullying them. They were considered evidence against the person

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Yeah exactly! I think there should be a list of /trusted/ screencapping sites and a list of unacceptable ones. I think this is just a matter that does need to be looked into more and there needs to be some other source of evidence aside from dismissing every screenshot shown. If they delete the post and that's the evidence lost that's not really good? If there was a report status button it should send the entire status to the mods and they can handle it accordingly, so then it's not just dismissed because that person deleted it and they can't use the screenshots for proof because it could have been tampered with. THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS, but i think just disregarding screenshots in their entirety isn't a good thing. You just gotta do your research and i think the mods and everyone else should work together and compile a list needed for that, or make a report status/feed/forum button. So then even if they do remove it, they still have evidence that can't be removed due to it being sent immediately to the mods in some sort of fashion. Makes banning and reporting a lot more reliable.

"But why would literally dozens of people waste their time to manipulate screenshots against a single user? "

Because there is a huge amount of people on this site who have a problem with that user, regardless of whether right or wrong. In fact, I'd wager probably 50% of the people who report and dislike them have had no interaction with them whatsoever. When you've got a lynch mob forming, you have to actually tread with care because that's when falsehoods spring up the most.

I don't understand how this is such a hard concept to grasp. The mods are doing their job to the letter, and the amount of people this obsessed with this one person is frightening.

Block them, report them if they break the rules, do not engage and move on. I realize PH is predominantly made up of kids, but the level of obsession is bordering into stalking. I'm not a fan of that user, in fact the one interaction I had with them was incredibly weird, but I make a habit of not engaging people who annoy me. It's not that difficult. TBH, the hate-fountain this site has for them is starting to make me feel sorry for them.

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@Asuramaru That's why I said it's more acceptable to disregard someone who uses the word "hate" towards the person and not their actions. I do know there are a lot of people that target this person because it's quite frankly considered "cool" to defend and attack without any knowledge. I for one, have interacted with said user. They've never been rude to me or expected anything from me except once when they expected me to compliment them when they were stating the truth about how they are as a person. Which I wasn't inclined to do, especially if I agreed to their statement, even if I saw good in them. Heck they were around when I first started a while ago, so I have no ill-will towards them, but their actions are another. I don't block people unless they're specifically rude to me, or rude to an extreme towards another user, which I haven't personally seen. The hate-train of inevitable doom makes me feel bad for them as well, but having seen how they react in situations they don't agree with override that feeling. Every action has a consequence, but in this case the consequences have been extremely lenient.

Though this is not all against that one user. Not at all, I was just using them as an example because everyone seems to know of them without even having to say a name. I'm saying that seeing as screenshots are the only way users on here can provide evidence, they should be considered to a certain extent. I'm not saying let the screenshot be the one that decides the outcome, it should just be considered instead of completely nullified considering the given situation of this being a website. If there's no way to check the archives of the website, and a mod is not around to witness it live, of course a person is going to screenshot the altercation.

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@Asuramaru I have no idea who this user is or what they have done to rise such a huge amount of hate upon themselves, however, I do believe if a new updated report system was placed in or there were trusted sites for screencapping it would be different, like something to archive the posts that get reported so that some mod somewhere can look at it and then decide where to go to from there. So then even if they are dumb reports that mean nothing a mod can simply look at the reason for the report or whatever it may be and either take action with the other mods, or dismiss it from a group conclusion.
since i know if someone is forming mobs against someone it's not as easy to just block and go since a lot of people don't share the same mentality. Whoever is getting so much hate that they are getting mobs is really unfortunate though. But if there was somehow a way to implement an archiving report system for statuses or whatever so that it just shows the post to the mods like a report ticket basically. So then they can see what was reported and then either close the ticket and delete it or take action and warn the user(s) accordingly. Especially if the only evidence being screenshots are getting dismissed.

I didn't mean you two [or any one specific person] when referring to that particular user. What I meant was more abstract; sorry if it was unclear!

At the end of the day, though, screenshots can be fabricated. And it doesn't have to be image editing. It's entirely possible to use programs to edit the source code of a website on your end to say something, and have it not affect the website itself.

For instance, I can use a program to change what Targaryen's post says on my end to say "U SUCK NOIRRR!!! I HOPE U DIE A FIERY DEATH!!!" and on my end it'll show exactly that. I can then screenshot it for reference point, and submit it as "evidence." Absolutely nothing on the source end has changed, and no one will be able to prove it wasn't "edited" later.

This is why screenshots don't work. Stuff like this absolutely fools screenshots. I don't even have a lot of technical know-how and I'm betting I could do it before the end of the day without touching photoshop.

I won't specify the names of the programs coming to mind because I do not want to encourage bad behavior. But it is 100% possible.

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@Asuramaru well i am a tech geek so I do know what you're talking about entirely, and that is a very good point to make on that end. But I would assume maybe like 20% of users might know how to do that. So that is true, i think an archiving report system would probably be the best bet for reporting proof on anything, so like i said before it'll be a ticket made in a mod system type thing and they can all review when they are online so even IF the user removes said status/whatever it may be, there's still some proof to what they posted. And the right kind of action can be taken. So it'll help at least and everyone will feel like it's all for naught. you know?
I am sure some feature will come sooner or later that will be something like that, so then everyone can relax and not be so angry and having mobs and what-not against someone and that someone getting away with things they shouldn't be, because of a simple delete button.

Actually, it's really not hard. Just managed this - blah - without the use of anything but Google chrome.



All it takes is a quick google search of the right terms.

I don't think the number is as small as 20%. I'd wager it's a lot higher, considering how frequent this particular abuse occurs on similar sites to PH.

I do think making an 'edit log' of feeds, and showing past deleted feeds for mod access, would be a really good option and might help prevent abuse in the future. That, to me, belongs in suggestions though :)

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To be clear: I would support a back-end option for mods to be able to see the most recent deleted feeds up to 30 days, as well as all edits of them and existing feeds, and past 'versions' of posts on the forums. Palpad can't be deleted, and I am pretty sure mods can access Palpad messages if you report FROM Palpad, so if someone is engaging you in Palpad, always do this vs screenshots.

That said, I also know first-hand what a beast coding something like that can be, and I really don't envy Riako trying. If he ever does make such a thing, everyone on PH better be buying the poor guy a beer. Took my team FOREVER when I was working at the gaming company, and that game wasn't as expansive as PH in many ways.

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Just wanna show you something - you don't even need Photoshop, that's totally unneeded.
This is my regular user profile. Nebby is, as seems, lvl. 518.
[For better resolution, take the image to another tab. They're messed up in spoiler tags]

Take a look at this particular button - right click aaand:

Click, click, click..

Now it's magically over 5000?? I didn't really focus on EXP right now (it's not correct), but you do get the point? You can, with just a little patience, remove every single trait that would reveal editing. Carefully observing a certain user for even a week can give you the ability to act and speak like them. Mods probably received a scary number of so-faked screenshots like this.


Seriously, you don't even have to be smart to do that, it's far too easy :'v

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Title: confused

went to report that BJ account and

Please tell us the reason(s) for your report, so we can intervene immediately.
NOTE: Reporting a user without any reason may have bad consequences for you!
Reporting is anonymous to the public. We won't tell your name to anyone.
Please add evidence to your report (for example a screenshot) if possible.
Please write your report in English.

So are screenshots considered, or nah?

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TEST

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Test Test Testing One Two Three Can you hear me?

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