Forum Thread

First, some of you might be asking: -why is this guy complaining about a rule? does he want to break it?. No, I'm not here to change a rule to be able to 'break' it.

This is the rule:


Why am I complaining? Because I see this rule as a cue for scammers and robbers. Why? Let's imagine this hypotetical situation:

- There's a person X selling a Shiny Tyranitar
- A person Y (the robber) sees the offer and tells the person X that he will pay 400k PD for the shiny
- X sees the PD of Y and sees he has 560k PD (they don't know each other)
- X accepts the offer, and Y offers a random pokemon to Shiny Ttar
- Y promises he will give the 400k PD to X
- X accepts the trade and doesn't get his money
- X complains with Y
- Y argues "Trading at your own risk (...) we will not get your belongings back for you in case of a disagreement. So always make sure you can trust your trading partners."

You see my point? The thing is that we have to manage to force the robber to give our Pokémon back without reporting them or the robber will get banned (temporarily or permanent) and our stuff will be lost/still in hands of the stealer because the rules don't say that the stuff will be back to us.

"-But that's person X's fault" Ehm, following that reasoning you shouldn't trade with anybody you don't know (or if you're extremist, you shouldn't trade with anybody) because the potential of the person scamming you.

Now, it has happened to me and it has happened to a friend too, I'll explain you what happened on the most recent one, the one that happened to my friend:

My friend was selling his mega-able gyarados, and a guy offered him 200 nuggets for it. My friend accepted the offer, and then they did the trade. After my friend accepted the trade, the other guy didn't send the nuggets. My friend complained to me, and I talked to the other guy, knowing that if I reported him my friend probably wouldn't get his mega-able gyarados back. What was his answer? "See the rules". He was obviously talking about the rule 3.3.

So, what's our choice if this happens? reporting him won't give my friend the mega-able back, and trying to force him to give the mega-able is often times worthless.

"-But you didn't talk about rule 3.3.1!"

(In case you are wondering, this is Rule 3.3.1:)



Yes, this is the original intention when making that rule (while I don't agree with it, is not that bad). I already knew that, my whole point is that stealers skips that important part of the rule 3.3, and they think they can steal other people's pokemon, PD and nuggets and get out unpunished.

"-So... what do you wanna do then?" I want to change that rule, to something clearer, that doesn't allow scammers and robbers to do whatever they want.

I agree that kinda gives them the okay to do it
Maybe change the rule and add maybe an extra staff member who can take on these types or reports/trade disagreements

Again, the only way you can really make this work is if the player who was scammed has some form of evidence. There shouldn't just be spam-happy reports unless you have picture proof or some other form of evidence

But none the less, updating the rule so it doesn't give them the okay sounds nice

---

Of course you need evidence, when agreeing the trade in the PalPad or PMs (to see the thing they agreed with), the screenshot or something of the accept of the trade at the GTS (to see if the trade was accepted or not or even created) and the Emera Bank (to see if the payment was done or not) should be enough ^^

Thanks for the contribution! :D

---

If you want to make sure that you aren't scammed in a trade, then you should use the Trusted Trading Thread.

---

This should prolly be moved to suggestions.
But yeah I completely agree. Yeah we could use the Trusted Trading Thread but I don't desire to have third parties take part in my trades. Rather, I'd like to be guaranteed that if who I'm trading with doesn't fulfill they're side of the trade, I have the right to report them.

Of course, let's look at bending one of our current rules:

Quote

PokéHeroes should be a friendly community-based browsergame for every age.

Scamming like with that mega-able Gyarados and nuggets is considered unfriendly and rude, therefore making it already reportable. This causes two rules to conflict with each other.

---

I completely agree and how about a single trade sorta thing is made and whatever Y says they are going to offer to X they have to offer to X or they don't get the pokemon it would stop so many scammers from scamming

@Riako I never saw that thread, it's interesting. But you missed one of my biggest points, the thing is basically the rule is giving a cue to the stealers to steal.

@KrazyKarp Yeah, I was having an intense internal fight to decide where I should post this thing xD. I thought this would have taken more serious in this subforum.

Quote

Rather, I'd like to be guaranteed that if who I'm trading with doesn't fulfill they're side of the trade, I have the right to report them.

I completely agree with that! it's really what my main objective was when making this post.

@doodlebug09 Exactly, thanks for your contribution!

---

The problem is that that rule is only a coverall. Sorry Riako, but it is what it is. Just because it's a cover-my-ass thing doesn't make it right. Scamming is a far cry from a disagreement where the player had agree to the player's trade terms until half of the trade goes through.

The only way this is ever going to change on here is either:

1. If everyone stops any kind of trading that does not go through the global trading center, auction house, and gem exchange. Which limits trading specifically to pokemon vs pokemon and maybe holding an item, pokemon vs pd, and gem vs gem.
- This would make trading nuggets, selling items and gems to others for pd, and etc impossible though.

2. If the rule is changed and a new policy added, that all users are required to follow through their agreement once a trade is in progress. If a player refuses to complete the trade (looking into palpad and pm messages would confirm this) then the partial trade reversed and given a warning. A reoccurring offense giving a ban.
- This would still put extra work on Riako. If they don't, the other player's belongings will be retrieved and the offending player banned for scamming.

3. A new trading system is put in place, allowing players to trade multiple things; pokemon, items, pd, and nuggets, between each other using the official feature.
- This would take a bit of coding, but at least Riako wouldn't have to deal with reversing trades and banning more players, and it makes everyone happy and able to trade what they want without fear of scamming.


For a future note though. Something similar happened to me, reporting did no good, and the other player is still playing around scott free. Basically, the mod told me that once I accepted the GTS trade with my part and the junk pokemon they offered, the trade was done. It did not matter what the agreement was. So make sure the other player sends their part to you first (pd, nuggets, gems, anything over 1 item that cannot be put in the trade) before you accept their GTS offer on your trade.

Example, you're friends mega-able pokemon. Make sure you get the 200 nuggets first before you accept that GTS offer. It is not scamming and don't fall for if they try to claim you are scamming them. Just insist that they send their part first, then you'll accept their GTS offer on the trade, and if you don't within 10 minutes of receiving their part then to report you. If they refuse to sent their part, then most likely they were out to scam you and simply say you're no longer trading with them then.

---

Really interesting post, Omosky. I agree with the third suggestion, but I always see stuff like that on the Suggestions subforum and nothing happens.

The thing with forcing the other person (that didn't set up the trade) to give his part first is that if the person that set up the tradei is the scammer, he can easily take the stuff and don't accept the offer. So I don't think it's a solution to anything.

---

Quote

3. A new trading system is put in place, allowing players to trade multiple things; pokemon, items, pd, and nuggets, between each other using the official feature.

I really like this. One central trading station for everything. No one would have to worry as much about being scammed if everything was thrown into one central GTS.

---

I see a big problem with that because a scammer could purposely forget to add something after the trade is made and say they will go back and send it yet they never do

Doodle, if you see something missing from the trade, then you obviously shouldn't offer on the trade. When the person says they'll send it later it's pretty suspicious, too.

---

But someone new might not know that

That still doesn't make sense to me. It's all using common sense. Even in real life the whole situation would be suspicious- if someone doesn't include everything agreed on in the trade, it's common sense to tell them to include the Pokemon/items/etc. and not accept the trade until they do. If someone seriously accepts the trade while the other side didn't fulfill their whole offer then that person isn't too smart.

---

Someone who is new might go "ok you can put that on the trade and send it to me" then the other person will get off and change their user and never give the person their stuff

I've suggested the trade system before and apparently it's been shut down many times in the past.
All we need as a community is some reassurance that there will be consequences for the players that seem to think scamming is the way to have fun online.

---

Exactly, and that is not that hard to guarantee, just making the warning/ban serious and a way to the mods or admins to undo a trade.

I say "undo the trade" because giving the mods the privilege of just giving pokemon from one account to other one is too much power. Even undoing the trade carries a lot of power to the mods.

---

Your trading system has one flaw.

Personally, when I make a deal, the person sets up the pokemon (me or them) then offer and pay at the same time.

If they are knowingly scamming you, you'd have the proof when they withdraw instead of accepting the trade.

In your case, you should ALWAYS make them pay before accepting the trade. The person with the most to lose should always do this.

You have a shiny for sale? The other person should offer and pay before you accept.

Common sense yo

---

Exactly as Nessy said Gaspoo. If they cancel the trade and refuse to return your payment, then you can report them for scamming and the mods will take it from there.

However, if you are the person setting up the trade and accept it, only to not receive the rest of the other player's payment, there is nothing the mods will do since it was a GTS trade and regardless of what the agreement before the trade started was. Honestly, a simple "Privately agreed trading terms may not be changed once a private trade starts, but the trade may be cancelled by either party as long as all transferred goods return to the original parties. Offenders refusing to complete, trying to change what was agreed on, or refusing to send back belongings may be reported for scamming," and with staff actually backing it up might change things.

And yes, an actual button for mods to reverse/undo a trade would be best. Maybe not for all mods, but key ones.


And yes, Mykey8, I know the whole central multi-trading station suggestion has been shot down many times. However, it doesn't stop us from asking. It may take a lot of coding, but wouldn't it be worth it to forever sold issues like this? Once a feature like that was up, it would only be 100% the player's fault for getting scammed for not using the trading station.

I know there would still be reports of scamming by player's letting others borrow pokemon, however, an official borrowing thread that staff backed up would help. A simple thing where player A posts something along the lines of, "I'm letting (player name here) borrow my (pokemon name here). (Conditions of the borrowing placed here, along with any collateral that will be held if any.)" With player B posting along the lines of, "I accept the terms. (And if any collateral they would list it)." The duration of the borrow would be needed. This would allow staff to keep track and if any issues cropped up, a simple "undo trade" button help would do the trick to get everything back to normal. If it's just an issue of inactivity, no problem. If it's a ban, well, Riako would need to answer that theory.

In the end, either or both would tremendously help players feel safer and less worried about being scammed.

---

Yet the scammer could be doing the trade and when you pay decline the trade and not give you the pokemon