Forum Thread

I'm pretty sure you just made a logical round-about here. You're using an example of two experienced(ish in my case) players responding to each other's opinions to try and support the interactions between an experienced scammer stating values as facts and a new player or fairly new player who's not expecting to be scammed out of the blue.
There wasn't a place for trust to be put in an opinion. You gave a statement, I gave a statement. II defended my statement, you defended yours.

No, I don't have a better solution, but in this suggestion's current state, it's not the best we have to look at. Education, maybe.
Scammers are going to be here forever. There's no way that we really can get rid of scammers completely. They'll always be floating around, for as long as they're on the internet in general. So warning folks when they join might be a good idea, but I don't know how to go about that.

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There was trust. You trusted the fact that that was my opinion and that I wasn't purposefully attempting to create a situation that I can use as an example. I didn't think at all that you were picking favorites.

I fully realize scammers will always exist. However, in a trading station where all contents of the trade are sent over at the same time, where is there room for scamming?

This suggestion is both educational AND practical. There's no way around saying it absolutely needs to be implemented other than referring back to Rule 3.3 and pointing fingers at the victim.
Of course scammers will always be around. We can help reduce the risk of them scamming by improving trading options though. If it by chance does get implemented, 3.3 could be changed to something along the lines of "Always make sure you use the GTS to safely trade your Pokemon, items, PD, and nuggets. We cannot guarantee your safety if you use another means of trading nor can we guarantee being able to help you retrieve what was stolen. NEVER use the Gift option to trade! It is for GIFTING only."

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Wow really full suport! this wil prevent a lott of scamm! :D

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@Midnight_Rein

Well I am unsure that what are you trying to Prove here. But thats wrong that I have anything wrong or disrespect about memequeen in my heart. I respect and like her as same as I like the other users and my friends, may be more.. ;)

You Ought Not to write anything like I and memequeen dont get along and stuff.. on a suggestion forum. sorry but thats true that you ought not to. But as I said all I have for memequeen is - Respect. So please dont post something Like that ever. you should not making up things and posting in a suggestion forum.

ok Now about pharasing - everybody knows my knowledge of english is not good as it is also written on my about me.. so its hard for me to understand english that is not properly pharashed. thats what I wrote ;) ... But the main thing is - . My palpad is always open for users who can not understand anything on this forum.. so I will politely describe everything to them.. yeah my english is bad but I will try my best. I never bother to help.

Second - I request not to accuse me for bullying. I am sorry but may be you got misunderstood here. As I said my knowledge of english is not good. so I just wrote the part of what I could not understood.

Third and most Important. - Kindly do not make up just anything by yourself and say "no way to get people to support you"... The "Vision" of This suggestion is way bigger than just to get support.. Everyone can see this suggestion is just not to get support . These types of statements can make the other person feel bad for no reason. (also here are few dislikes among hundreds of likes.. But I even appreciate them .. since I appreciate of actual decisions of every user no matter like or dislike. I also accept advises so I can improve this suggestion)

Okay Now. Lets come to the Point - I will say I have enough experience on this Great site to Not to get scammed (but everyone can get scammed). So this suggestion is not for experienced users who try not to get scammed.. It is To help the 'New Innocent users' who join here and Think that everyone here is trust-able... then they make a big trade and loss a big amount of precious stuff. After that the following things happens.

-They feel very sad and ripped off. Like when I felt when the first time I got scammed.
-They feel more sad when he know that he can not get his stuff back. (after he ask it around)
-Then They stop trusting most of the users. ( yes the user who used to trust everyone is stop trusting people)
-Its obvious that They also will feel angry.
-They might feel like leaving the site because the first experience they got was getting Scammed ! Just because their generosity and nature to trust everyone?

It's so easy to say that It's Their Fault ... But it's so hard to understand how bad and ripped off they feel after getting scammed.

So they have to learn it by the hard way. but why?

The Other most Important things I have noticed -

Some posts are keep pointing everyone to rule 3.3. I guess, Either they Didnt paid enough attention on the first post or they Missed the Real Purpose of this suggestion. I already wrote that this suggestion is to support the rules but I have to keep writing it again and again. How it will work? because rules says that "trade on your own risk" and thats logical. This rule is made so mods don't have to bother by returning stolen stuff to their owners. Which is obvious. Mods have many other important things to do.

Wouldn't that also reduce additional efforts for mods which they have to do in Trusted Trading Thread ?

I am completely agree with KrazyKarp and Dracedia. Also the thing - "I only trade with people I know or trust" ... shows the fear that how people are scared of being scammed. It also shows that New users who dont know anyone wont be able to trade. Also people who are not well known wont be able to trade either. is that? ..... Its easy to say that but trust takes weeks if not month's to develop... So its impossible to know "each and every user" here (with more than 50k users around here)... and invest that much time to develop the Trust.

Posts like - "this suggestion cant be a solution of scamming..... I say - This can be a start. And its the best so Far.
Posts like - " Hackers always gonna be around we can't get rid of them"... I say - So should we drop all the weapon just because they are gonna be around OR should we develop a better scamming prevention system?
Posts Like - "Dont trade if you dont trust someone".... I say - Why don't make the Trading Itself trusted ?
Posts Like - "Educate/warn New folks".... I say - warn them to not to get scammed? means when a new user registers he gets a hint that scammers are around? hehe.. well the rule and wiki can be a good source of it but..It is good... but Its no Perfect solution for the scamming problem.. The trust issues will still be there.. so. A secure system is needed.

This suggestion is not breaking any rule. It will be supporting the rule. Trading will still be on user's OWN risk.. But Just a Bit SAFER. That is the main purpose of this suggestion. Rule can still be same. Mods still wont have to return stolen Stuff...... Because ........ Stuffs Won't Be stolen Anymore By the safer way of trading :)

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I agree with this my buddy. I actually questioned to myself at times why this didn't exist already.

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if I don't need to trade a pokemon for a new one and I could only pay the pokemon I would gladly support this. it would be a bit easier to complete the pokedex.

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Pretty sure Riako thought about it countless time since the beginning of setting up GTS and Auction House.
I may not be right but one of the reasons might be because it will kill off a large part of Auction House. Another reason might be to simulate how pokemons are being traded inside the real pokemon games.
And lastly, I don't think the fundamental point of GTS being set up is to be traded with pd or nuggets and might be even discouraged, if not it'll become a Booth/Shop to buy and sell pokemon for a fixed price.

Pertaining to new users getting scammed, having this function will not help AT ALL. They still can get scammed into paying high amount of pd/nuggets to buy something completely rubbish or selling something valuable at a low price. What this suggestion helps is to prevent scamming in the way where someone sends pd/nuggets first and not get the pokemon/item or vice versa, regardless of New or Experienced players.

Having said all these, i'm neutral about this because I got nothing to lose if this idea is implemented. But I will say this that all this support/disapproval are probably useless and Riako should come out and explain his reasons for putting stuff this way. :)

Have a good day everyone :D

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Pertaining to new users getting scammed, having this function will not help AT ALL. They still can get scammed into paying high amount of pd/nuggets to buy something completely rubbish or selling something valuable at a low price.

I've never heard of scamming being used in this sense. I would consider that being 'ripped off.' Aragon intended for this suggestion to help users being scammed out of PD/nuggets, not being ripped off.

And no, the support/disapproval is not useless. Why do you think the Suggestions forum exists in the first place? It's to gauge the user base's interest in ideas.

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scammed or ripped off. Call it what u want. Scammed meaning u get nothing in return and ripped off = u get a little in return but no need to nitpick.

I'm not saying the support/disapproval function is useless for suggestions because it is important like you said. Im saying its useless in this post and suggestion because Riako most likely has a fundamental reason why he did not implement this. Even with 10,000 approvals, its still comes down to Riako reasoning.

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Well I don't think it will or can kill of a part of auction house. You need to be more clear on here on that.(auction house is something where we can bid higher and higher for a limited amount of time.. so there will be no direct connection between AH and GTS)

From what I understand by what you wanted to say that - The pd / Nuggets option will be shown at "View all trades" and "Set up new trade"(so it can take place of auction house?). .. No. ... The adding option according to this idea ... will only be shown at GTS "offer and trade page". Not on the "View all trades" and "Set up new trade".. So at "View all trades" page nothing about it's price would be visible.... So Auction house would be Impactless by it. If other sites can make it functional ( both GTS + auction house together) then why we can't?

Second - where we have a question "about fundamental point of GTS in real games" ... I guess there is a lot of difference in Pokemon 3ds games and a Browser game. A Browser game can have countless Number of features but a 3ds can not. So comparison is not a good deal.

Third - questions about "new users that they still can pay high price for something".. But now a days we have The Price Check Thread to let new users know about prices. I guess Almost all New users Refers it.. But this suggestion Not about paying high or low for something... This suggestion is to pay at the same time while trading.. And that is the part where Most of the scamming Happens. ... when someone send his stuff first But the other person sends nothing in return. ... So New or Old .. No user would have to wait for other person to send his "promised" payment.

But I am completely agree on If someone in charge comes and give his view because may be I missed something or may be this Idea can Improve and modifications can be made. :)

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Well, you said having this function would not help users being scammed. I simply stated what Aragon meant by scamming.

That's true, but until Riako says something then people supporting and/or disagreeing with the idea still holds merit. Even if he did intend for the GTS to be similar to the Pokemon games, you never know if seeing the amount of support for the idea will change his mind.

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Agree with what Aragon said about preventing scamming from paying and getting the pokemon/item at the same time. Which I mentioned it helps both new and experienced players, hence I was disagreeing with the part where people are mentioning it will help "new players" is not relevant.

The logical part of how auction house will be killed off is here:
Mega Blastoise. Average of price = 450k for example.
If I can "buy" a mega blastoise easily from GTS for 450k, why would people put their blastoise in Auction house? Because the pd they get from auctioning off won't go up further than 450k because I will simply just buy one off GTS.
And people will start to realize Auction house is useless and will just put up their Mega Blastoise at GTS for 450k or whatever price. Yes auction house prices can go up or down, but it won't go higher than the price u can simply buy one off GTS. From then on, who will put their mega blastoise on auction house given that they will definitely get lesser than 450k?
Now apply this theory to all the shinies, mega-able and mega pokemons.

Then next, we talk about very rare pokemons/items. One might argue, what about those that do not have a fixed price like Shiny events that you might not find in GTS and hence do not have a standard price? If pd/nuggets were allowed on GTS, people would rather put them in GTS and see the pd/nuggets offers that they can get, instead of auctioning them off. This would be the smarter way but I know I can't generalize. But most people will start to just put them into GTS.

Of course there are exceptions to what I mentioned such all the normal types of pokemon, people may just auction them off at 0/10/100 pd to clear storage or some people just like to throw a Mega pokemon to auction house to see how high it can get etc.
What I'm trying to show is just an idea on how the improved GTS can mess with Auction house, to some extent, not entirely.

Feel free to disagree but just my thought. (Y)

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My friend you are not getting the concept behind this idea.

People do sell stuff at GTS by Putting like

"450k for mega blastoise or Palpad offers" dont they? but does auction house affect by it? No.

Now suppose this idea implements... then They will write the same "450k for mega blastoise or Palpad offers" Same like they used to. So.. how does it make a difference?

Now lets come to the things which dont have a fixed price suppose "Shiny Festival ralts"... and they will write "850k+ pd or offer in palpad." ... thats what they do now.. so how it will make a difference?

as I already stated that - There will be No auto accept or Auto win like auction house..

so how it will work let me show by an example :

suppose I wanna sell a "shiny Festival Ralts" and I write there ( just write as a message like we always do.. ( there wont be a button to set a fix price when we "set a trade" ) )... "800k pd or best offer .. palpad me for offers"

then a User B will contact me via palpad that he have a offer of 900k pd + 50 Nuggets

I will say I accept this and pls offer any pokemon on the "shiny festival Ralts"..

Then he will offer a random pokemon like ponyta .. plus he will add 900k pd + 50 Nuggets ( as shown in figure in first post) ...... and this will happen on his offer page and the Nuggets and pd buttons will only Be on his offer page .. Not on "set a GTS" page

Then I will check my "Trade Page" and I will see that he offered 900k pd + 50 Nuggets with ponyta for my "shiny festiv ralts" (as shown in second figure on first post)

Now I can see everything that what he offer. it all up to me to accept or reject it.

So I will accept it and thats all. trade done. same as it happens now but just with the added feature.

and everyone have to select a pokemon to exchange.. (unlike auction where if someone buy our pokemon, then the pokemon goes to him and u lose the pokemon)

Hope u get it now. or I can describe u in palpad to if u want.

I agree that the idea is currently being done and I know how it is done currently.

The thing is, why is auction house NOT that affected by it now? Because many of them don't dare to sell it for pd/nuggets in GTS for fear of being scammed.
If the improved GTS offers a foolproof way of selling it there for pd/nuggets and I won't get scammed, then I won't use auction house anymore and put everything at GTS. Following that, fewer and fewer people uses auction house -> killing it off, and GTS will be flooded with trades.

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do u mean GTS and auction house are there where they are right now, just because of fear of scamming in GTS?

and we should keep the fear of scamming in GTS, because in your views Auction House rely on it?

Still most of the scamming happens in GTS. And Still hundreds of trades happen in GTS everyday.

In my views GTS and auction house are different because GTS is static and Auction House is Dynamic. I also didnt know that people use auction house because they don't wanna get scammed in GTS. Like I use both for different purpose. Everybody do.

well My idea is to remove the fear of being scammed and to reduce the number of scammers :)

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This might have been suggested and rejected before but this really needs to happen - and judging by the votes this suggestion has gotten so far, quite a few people think so.

Like mentioned by a lot of people already, implementing this like suggested would help SO MUCH with minimizing scam and then maybe we can have safe(r) trades again. We - the staff/moderators - already provide a service by running [T³] Trusted Trading Thread but unfortunately there are still a lot of users who either don't know about the thread and/or don't want to use it (which, quite honestly, I don't understand but I'm not in the position to judge people's decisions, sooo ..).

There are way too many scammers lurking around the site - they seem to grow like darn weed - and there's no real way for us moderators to help you guys here other than banning the scammers. Which leaves us with the old and well known problem - people not getting their stuff back. And this is not because we don't want to help you guys - just wanted to make this clear (again) since I've read enough about this over the time .. and it's simply not true! - but we just can't. We don't have the possibility to get into users's accounts the way that kind of thing (transferring stuff from one account to another) would require and therefore our hands are tied here.
Also, rule 3.3 was never meant to be interpreted the way people do nowadays - rule 3.3 was added way before people started "abusing it." It was only meant to avoid people come running like, "I've accidentely offered the wrong Pokémon on trade x and now user y isn't giving back my precious Pokémon - get it back for me plsss!" but to make them be more careful with stuff like that. Granted, the rule kind of leaves room for awfully wrong interpretations and that's when (and maybe why) people started thinking they would get away with scamming others.

Anyways. Back to topic. :'D

This suggestion would prevent most of the scams currently happening and that's why this suggestion needs to be implemented. Ideally even allowing people to trade multiple Pokémon at the same time and not only on a one-to-one basis - so disproportional trades only require one trade, after all.
(And yes, I know that this is not how it works in the "real" Pokémon world, aka the official games, but let's be rational here .. this site is meant to be a tribute to the Pokémon games not an exact copy of them.)

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Thank you Liirah ! Thanks a lot for you opinion. It will help many other people to understand the need of scamming prevention system. And I will add the "multiple pokemon trade at once" thing at the first post too :)

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Has anybody thought about how much time this would possibly take to code or is it just me >w>

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About coding : Let Riako take care of that. And lets we focus on the importance of the suggestion.

Some of the feature of this site were more complex to code than this one I guess. But they have done coded and comes out as the amazing features.

That's make this site perfect. ( the incredible coding and organisation of every feature) doesn't it? :)

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