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Forum Thread

Gur Pbqr Pyho (The Code Club)

Forum-Index Fan Clubs Inactive Clubs Gur Pbqr Pyho (The Code Club)
TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Mon, 10/03/2014 02:50 (10 Years ago)
Calling all spies, detectives, code-crackers and cryptologists! Are you a code breaking machine? Or maybe you are a beginner who wants to learn? Perhaps somewhere in the middle? If so, this club is for you!
"He saves planets, rescues civilizations, defeats terrible creatures... and runs a lot." - Jenny, from "The Doctors Daughter"
I know there are at least one or two other cipher lovers out there, so this club is pretty much just for people to come along and chat about different codes and ciphers, write and solve codes etc. Every now and then (when I have something I can give for a prize) we will have contests.

Rules:
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-If you want to join, please use the form
-All ph forum rules apply, ie no spamming, double posting, or being mean etc.
-Remember to keep it age-appropriate. ;)


Form:
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Username:
Nickname(s):
Favorite code/cipher:
Reason for joining:


My Form:
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Username: JustMe4031
Nickname(s): JustMe, K9
Favourite code/cipher: The Vigenere Cipher
Reason for joining creating: I love code-breaking and I thought it would be neat to have a place where others like me could come together to chat about it.


Members
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JustMe4031 (JustMe, K-9)
Ufimtsev (Fim, Yarly)


Competition Time


You could win a totodile! Simply pm me the most imaginative ways you can come up with to send a message in Morse Code, and the most creative idea will win!

Check out "Spotlight On... Morse Code" for more info!


That's all for now ./-./.---/---/-.-- !

Ufimtsev
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Posted: Mon, 10/03/2014 03:30 (10 Years ago)
Username: Ufimtsev
Nickname(s): Fim, Yarly, etc. etc.
Favorite code/cipher: Pigpen Cipher
Reason for joining: Ever since I was little...r I've loved anything that could be a medium for writing secret messages! Morse, binary, scytale- even made-up alphabets like Aquarian, Kryptonese, Galactic Standard Code, and non-fictional ones as well (say, runic!). It'd be great to have place like this where I can talk to other people who are as interested in the subject as I am. 8D

So, to start things off, I have a question!
How did you discover what is now your favorite code/cipher? How do you put it to use?



TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Mon, 10/03/2014 03:52 (10 Years ago)
Accepted!

Well, when I was a kid I used to get this magazine thingy called 'spy university' and in one of the issues they did a story on the Vigenere Cipher. I loved the fact that unless you know the key word, it's incredibly hard to crack. So, it kinda became my thing. The main thing I use it for these days is in my teaching. As I well know, kids love codes, and they seem to share the same fascination for the Vigenere Cipher that I did.

So, I return the question back to you. c:
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Mon, 10/03/2014 04:07 (10 Years ago)
Thank you. :3

Sometime last year, I was thumbing through a friend's sketchbook, when I saw a half-written page. I noticed that part of the page had a few empty grids on it, so I asked what was meant to fill them. She said that she had an idea for a grid alphabet. At that time, I hadn't heard of a cipher system that used a grid, so I turned to the internet with questions. After clicking through a ton of Wikipedia pages, I came across the Pigpen cipher. It's quite simple, but does the secret message job nicely. ;3

That's all, haha.

Now another question:
What's the difference between ciphers and codes?
The answer can be found here, or more specifically, here.

If you ever want to kill time with some educational videos, the Applied Math/Cryptography section of KhanAcademy is the place to go. Hopefully the links are working. .w.



TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 09:59 (10 Years ago)
Hmm, looks like it's just you and me for now, Fim.

Whilst we wait for more members, I have a little cipher to get the grey-matter working, it's a quote (I like putting quotes into cipher, don't know why...)

No prize, sorry, just the satisfaction of knowing you are clever.

I won't give you any clues yet, oh and if any new members come along you are more than welcome to give it a go too :D

"afnkepmnww hwm'b efjeqw bpvn, mup hw bsn bpvbs efjeqw afnknp." - Aphww Dech.


I will say that it is a monoalphabetic, simple substitution cipher. Go here to find out what that means. Have fun!
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 20:36 (10 Years ago)
Nice one! I'll put my answer in spoiler tags in case anyone else would like to try. :3
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"Cleverness isn't always true nor is the truth always clever." -Criss Jami.


I haven't had the chance to solve a substitution cipher in a while, so thank you! ^^ It took me a tad less than 15 minutes, I'm not sure if that's considered speedy or not, but I did have a lot of fun with it. It's so exciting when you finally figure it out!

Meanwhile, I've got a quote of my own to share. Nobody said it had to be in plain English.
This one is done using a monoalphabetic Keyword cipher. Have fun!

"Bktiffbcikgi br taqii tabkhr, sbqrt bt br lbviqri, rigmkl bt br lykejbg ekl tabql bt br lbrtbkgt." -Rbq Dik Qmnbkrmk.




TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 20:49 (10 Years ago)
This is fun!

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"Intelligence is three things, first it is diverse, second it is dynamic and third it is distinct." Sir Ken Robinson"


Edit: May I inquire as to your method of solving my code? (just out of curiosity)
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 21:41 (10 Years ago)
Yeah! Great job. 8D That was fast.

All I did was use brute force. I don't know of a better/faster method at the moment. :p
I suppose I can put this in spoilers as well.
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After copying your quote onto a piece of paper, I plugged in letters/words to solve hwm'b, and I found that b = t made the most sense. When trying a few more combinations, I figured the words can't and won't didn't seem to fit with the other places the letters would be used, so I noted down isn't as a possibility and moved on to solving bsn, which, following the b = t rule, would likely make the. ^^ Then I filled in the rest of the t's, h's and e's, and after finding bpvbs to come out as t__th, I tried truth. From there, it all kind of clicked, haha.




TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 21:46 (10 Years ago)
Interesting, perhaps I need to write a harder quote next time... :P

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Did you notice where my re-arranged alphabet came from? It isn't just random... You should be able to discover what all the other letters are that didn't get used in the quote..

Ufimtsev
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Posted: Tue, 11/03/2014 22:16 (10 Years ago)
How would you crack a cipher like yours? There might be another, faster trick to it that I haven't discovered.

Hmm, no, I hadn't noticed. And with that I am quite stumped. ^^;



TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Thu, 13/03/2014 00:29 (10 Years ago)
Hmm, it depends on the length and whether or not I know the type of message.

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For short ones like this, I would tend to do the same sort of thing as you did. I would have picked the w as an s pretty quick, as a double letter at the end of a word is most commonly s. This would have given me h as either a or i, and looking at hwm'b, i would be the most likely, making isn't, which would give me 'the' and so on.
For a long message, my first step would be to sort out any one letter words, and two letters if possible, and then find the frequency of all the letters used. Of the most common letters, it is likely that one of those is an 'e', and another a 't', as they are the most commonly used letters. I would also sort out any double letters, and any words with apostrophes in them. Once that is done, the rest is usually pretty easy.
If I knew the message was a letter, my first step would be to look at the greeting and the ending, as a four letter word at the start would most likely be 'dear' which would give me some good letters to start off with. If the four letter word is followed directly by a 2 or 3 letter word, that is most likely 'mr' or 'mrs', again giving me some good letters. If there is a 9 letter word in the ending it is probably 'sincerely', and a 6 letter word might be 'thanks'. This usually gives enough letters to solve the rest.

Oh, and as for my rearranged alphabet...
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Try writing out the alphabet across the page, and writing the letters you know underneath.

If you are still stuck...
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You might want to ask Herbert M Zim for some advice...

TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Sun, 16/03/2014 11:22 (10 Years ago)

Title: Spotlight On... The Caesar Cipher

Firstly, many apologies for the double post, but I have something new to announce to the many :P members of this club.

Each week there will be a "Spotlight On..." which is pretty much where I tell you a bit about a particular code or cipher. Some history, uses, and of course, how to encode it and decode it. You can let me know if there is a particular code or cipher you want to know more about, but for this week I have chosen the Caesar cipher. I wanted to do the Vigenere cipher, but I thought I'd better do this one first.

What is it?
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The Caesar cipher is one of the simplest types of cipher. It is also known as a shift cipher, where each letter of the alphabet is replaced by the letter a fixed number of positions down the alphabet. For example, a Caesar cipher with a shift of 5 would replace A with F, B with G, C with H and so on.


When was it used?
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Well, not surprisingly, it was named after Julius Caesar, as he was the first one known to use this particular method. He would write his important messages with a shift of 3, so that if they were intercepted by the enemy, they would not discover his secrets. Although these days it would be relatively easy to solve, back then it was probably rather effective. There was no known decryption technique for simple substitution ciphers such as these until the 9th century. Also, most of Caesars enemies would have been illiterate anyway, and others would have assumed it was a foreign language.
Later on, in 1915, the Russians are recorded to have been using a Caesar cipher, as it was quick and easy to learn and use. The downside to this is that the messages were also easy for their enemies to decrypt.
In the 1930's, the Caesar cipher was commonly used in childrens' toys such as 'secret decoder rings', and in fact, they are still very popular today.
More recently, in 2006, part of the capture of mafia boss Bernado Provenzano was due to the breaking of the code he used which was based on the Caesar cipher. The difference being he used numbers instead, so A=4, B=5 and so on.


How do you use it?
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1. First write out the alphabet across a scrap piece of paper like this:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
2. Next, write the letter A underneath on of the other letters, like this:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
...................A.....................................................
3. Then continue writing the alphabet after the A. When you get to the end, continue at the other end, like this:
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T

You now have your cipher. Too encrypt your message, simply replace each letter in it, with the letter directly below the one in the cipher. For example, using the cipher above, the message "Meeting at dawn by the old oak tree" would be encrypted as "Gyyncha un xuqh vs nby ifx iue nlyy"

To decrypt, simply do the same in reverse.


How do you crack it?
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This is a great cipher for beginners to crack, because it is one of the easiest. To solve a Caesar cipher when you don't know how far the alphabet has been shifted, give this a try:
Find the most commonly used letters in the message. If using the example above again, we can see that the most common letter is 'y', followed by 'n'. The most commonly used letter is 'e', so write out the alphabet as before, and write another one underneath, starting with 'y' below e.
Try decoding the first few words using this cipher, does it make sense? If not, try again with the next most common letter under the e and so on until you find the one that makes sense.
Not very message will have 'e' as it's most common letter, but it will almost always be in the top 5.
Here's a handy tip: If you find yourself not wanting to write the alphabet every time, you could make yourself a Caesar Cipher Wheel. Then all you have to do is line up the letters and away you go!
Here's one you can do on your own, but please post the answer using spoilers so you don't spoil it for others ;)
Zhoo grqh, brx zrunhg lw rxw! Jlyh brxuvhoi d sdw rq wkh edfn!


Got any questions? Well, this is why we have the club so don't be afraid to ask. You can post here, or feel free to pm me. :D

Next weeks spotlight is on the Vigenere Cipher.
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Mon, 17/03/2014 17:54 (10 Years ago)
I'm sorry I didn't post before- I haven't been able to spend much time on PH since the 12th. But anyways... :P

I love learning about the history behind ciphers. It's fun to know that they were originally used as conveying messages safely while at war, and now they can be used by children, ahaha. I'm also quite fond of this Spotlight idea- it's an awesome way to highlight important ways to encode/decode, and teach. ^^

Interestingly enough, the Caesar cipher was the first cipher that I learned. It was part of one of those detective/spy kits, haha. I remember the shift, too- a shift of 13. In that way, the alphabet was basically split in half. So A = N, B = O, etcetera. It is also called a ROT13 cipher, as in rotating 13. It's one of the weakest ciphers around, but probably posed a challenge to most kids, which is why it was in the kit. :p

My answer to the Caesar cipher is in the spoilers below.
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"Well done, you worked it out! Give yourself a pat on the back!"

Also, how I solved it:
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Simply put, seeing the double O's in "zhoo" made me think of L. Assuming it to be the word well, it wasn't much of a reach to assume the first phrase could be well done. Thus I scribbled out a ROT3 shift on a spare piece of parchment and found my way to the answer.


For all of the future spies/detectives-in-training that might join this club of ours, here is a good way (albeit a roundabout one) to send secret messages. See if you can crack it!
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This is a story.
Annnd the secret-ness starts immediately below this sentence.

Perhaps I should think of a better way to encode my messages.
Really, now, it's getting kind of ridiculous how fast people are figuring them out.
Are they really that simple to decode...? ;w;
Yeah, I guess they could be...I just picked the easiest one to test.
For whatever reason, the ones that you can learn the fastest are sometimes the weakest ones.
Or maybe the people decoding my messages just have super intelligence. Ho....
Remember that time I used that really hard cipher? I do! It took me forever to master it...and then?
Nobody solved it! I think they even consulted the internet, to no results.
Yep, that was a great cipher! The time I spent studying it really paid off. ^__^
Choosing to learn tougher ciphers and codes might be hard, but in the end, it's better and more secure.

Annnd, end!
How did you like it? True story, by the way. There's a secret message somewhere in there, you know. And special bonus points if you find the hidden word as well! :P
Make sure to put your answer(s) in spoilers in case somebody else wants to have a go at it.




TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 18/03/2014 08:27 (10 Years ago)
It's been a long day and I am tired. That is my excuse and I'm sticking to it, lol. Either that or something has taken over my brain and turned it to mush. I can't figure out the secret message! :,( though I must admit I never really was very good at the 'message inside a message' ones... there's so many variations!

I did see the word pretty quickly, though...
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Is it 'pray'? Going down the side? If I'm wrong, my brain has definitely been turned to mush.


I haven't given up, though, I will solve it, it might take a few hundred years, but I will solve it!
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Tue, 18/03/2014 09:55 (10 Years ago)
Haha, yes, it's been a long day for me as well. So sleepy, zzzz.... xD I know how you feel, I still haven't edited my post with the answer yet. :P

Okay, here's a kind-of-not-really-hint-but-maybe-a-tip-sort-of.
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Pray is absolutely correct. Just keep going in that direction. *coughcough* Pray is part of the secret phrase, and once you solve that, the key to solving the bonus word should be pretty clear. Or maybe not, I haven't people-tested (lol) one of these in a while so it might be completely obscure. xD


And it's perfectly alright, I know how it is to be super tired. My brain feels like mush sometimes, too. owo It doesn't help that I'm sore all over and don't want to move. And on top of that it's 3 am here and I can't sleep, so naturally I jumped on PokéHeroes. :'D
After this, I think I really am going to bed, ahaha.



TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Sun, 23/03/2014 09:50 (10 Years ago)

Title: Spotlight On... The Vigenere Cipher

Sorry to anyone reading this who is waiting for the spotlight for the week which is due tonight. There will be a slight delay, it will be tomorrow afternoon (or 1amish ph time) instead as I have had a really horrible day so I am not in the mood for doing a lot of writing. Sorry.

I'm back. Still not feeling great, but I said I'd do it today, so here it is:

What is it?
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While the Caeser cipher is one of the easiest ciphers to break, the Vigenere is one of the toughest. It's a polyalphabetic cipher, meaning it uses many alphabets to encipher the message. It also uses a key-word.


When was it used?
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This cipher was actually first described by Giovan Battista Bellaso in his book in 1553, but later in the 17th century it was misattributed to Blaise de Vigenere and became known as the Vigenere cipher. For 3 centuries it resisted all attempts to break it, and so became known as "le chiffre indechiffrable" (French for 'the indecipherable cipher'). In the 19th century, Kasiski was the first one to entirely break the cipher and have his work published, although previous to this, Charles Babbage is known to have broken the cipher but not had it published.
Although very difficult to break, it was easy enough to use as a field cipher during war if cipher discs were used. During the American Civil War, a Vigenere cipher was used by the Confederates. Unfortunately, it was often cracked by the Union as the Confederates relied on three common key-phrases "Manchester Bluff", "Complete Victory" and, during the later part of the war, "Come Retribution".
In 1918 Gilbert Vernam tried to repair the broken cipher by creating the Vernam-Vigenere cipher. Unfortunately, no matter what he did, it was still vulnerable to cryptoanalysis. His work did, however, largely contribute to the "one-time pad", a provenly unbreakable cipher.


How do you use it?
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First off, you need one of these, a Vigenere table:

Next, you need to choose a key word or short phrase. For this example, I'll use the phrase "stormin norman". Now decide on the message and write it out just like you did for the Caeser cipher, leaving out the spaces, like this:



Then write your word or phrase underneath, matching letter for letter, and repeat it to the end of the line. It will most likely finish mid-word. That's ok, just leave it like that.



Next, look at the first letter of the start of your message (w), then the letter directly below it(s). Find the first letter (w) on the first row of the table, then the next letter (s) on the first column. Then go across/down until you find the letter that lines up with both of them, (in this case 'o') This is the first letter of your cipher. Repeat this step with the remaining letters.



And there you have it, the bottom line is your cipher. To decode it, simply do the same in reverse.

Top Tip! When enciphering/deciphering one of these, it helps to use a couple of pieces of paper or two rulers to see where the rows and columns match up.


How do you crack it?
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I must now confess that I have never managed to crack a vigenere cipher. However, there are a few methods, and Kasiski's method takes advantage of the vigenere's one weakness - the repetition of the key-word. (I have copied the following from wikipedia and edited it slightly.) For example, consider the following encryption using the keyword ABCD:
Message: CRYPTOISSHORTFORCRYPTOGRAPHY
Key: ABCDABCDABCDABCDABCDABCDABCD
Cipher: CSASTPKVSIQUTGQUCSASTPIUAQJB
There is an easily seen repetition in the cipher, and the Kasiski test will be effective. Here the distance between the repetitions of CSASTP is 16. Assuming that the repeated segments represent the same message segments, this implies that the key is 16, 8, 4, 2, or 1 characters long. (All factors of the distance are possible key lengths – a key of length one is just a simple caesar cipher, where cryptanalysis is much easier.) Since key lengths 2 and 1 are unrealistically short, one only needs to try lengths 16, 8, or 4. Longer messages make the test more accurate because they usually contain more repeated cipher segments. The following cipher has two segments that are repeated:
Ciphertext: VHVSSPQUCEMRVBVBBBVHVSURQGIBDUGRNICJQUCERVUAXSSR
The distance between the repetitions of VHVS is 18. Assuming that the repeated segments represent the same message segments, this implies that the key is 18, 9, 6, 3, 2, or 1 characters long. The distance between the repetitions of QUCE is 30 characters. This means that the key length could be 30, 15, 10, 6, 5, 3, 2, or 1 characters long. By taking the intersection of these sets one could safely conclude that the most likely key length is 6, since 3, 2, and 1 are unrealistically short.

My top tip for cracking this cipher is simple: make sure you have plenty of time and patience. And be aware that there will be a lot of trial and error. Good luck!

I will edit this at a later date and put in a cipher for you to solve, but I have been typing for quite a while now and I need a break ;)


Sorry for the delay, this has taken longer than i expected to type up. Hopefully it was worth the wait. As always, questions are welcome. :)
TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 01/04/2014 05:49 (10 Years ago)
So, I was about to type up the spotlight but it seems that nobody is interested in the club anymore, there have been no clicks for the last week. If I'm wrong, let me know, but I don't see much point in putting the time into writing these spotlights if nobody is reading them.
Ufimtsev
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Posted: Tue, 01/04/2014 06:15 (10 Years ago)
Ach, sorry to make you double-post again. //whack

In the least, I read through it sometime after it was posted, but I've barely had the chance to reply to anything (especially if I want to make my reply worthwhile). Welp, I guess I'm doing it now.
Really sorry about not replying. In a word? School. ><

I'm currently experimenting with the Vigènere cipher, and also a few variants of my favorite cipher that I've come up with myself. For example, the Templar cipher uses a cross instead of a grid. And I'm exploring with mirror writing (another classic but easy to break message medium, haha), which I suppose could be relevant to the club. It's easy to learn to write in reverse (relative to the tougher ciphers discussed previous).

Haven't given up on this club yet. Surely some young mind will be intrigued by your knowledge? :d



TheBlueOwl
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Posted: Tue, 15/04/2014 03:03 (10 Years ago)

Title: Spotlight On... Morse Code

Many, many apologies to the hundreds of people currently following this thread. This spotlight is very overdue... I won't bore you with excuses, instead I'll just get on with the spotlight on morse code - the very first code I ever learned!

What is it?
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Probably the most well known code in the world, morse is a code where each character is represented by a series of dots(.) and dashes(-). For example, a would be shown as .-
However, this is a very versatile code, and the dots and dashes can be replaced by things like long and short beeps or flashes of light.


When was it used?
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This code was originally invented in 1836, when the American artist Samuel F. B. Morse, the American physicist Joseph Henry, and Alfred Vail developed an electrical telegraph system. This system sent pulses of electric current along wires which controlled an electromagnet that was located at the receiving end of the telegraph system. A code was needed to transmit natural language using only these pulses, and the silence between them. Morse therefore developed the forerunner to modern International Morse code.

In the 1860's, Morse Code was used extensively in early radio communication, before it was possible to transmit voice. By the 1920's morse code was regularly used in aviation, and by the 1930s, both civilian and military pilots were required to be able to use Morse code, both for use with early communications systems and identification of navigational beacons which transmitted continuous two- or three-letter identifiers in Morse code.

Radio telegraphy using Morse Code was vital during World War 2, especially in sending messages between war ships and naval bases. Long-range ship-to-ship communications was by radio telegraphy, using encrypted messages, because the voice radio systems on ships then were quite limited in both their range, and their security. Radio telegraphy was also extensively used by warplanes, especially by long-range patrol planes that were sent out by these navies to scout for enemy warships, cargo ships, and troop ships.

SOS
The morse code distress signal sos (...---...) was first developed in 1905 by the German government, then became the official worldwide standard in 1908. This remained the maritime distress signal right up until 1999 when it was replaced by the Global Maritime Distress Safety System.
Although SOS became associated with phrases such as 'save our ship' and 'send out succour', the letters in SOS don't actually stand for anything. The dots and dashes are sent out with no letter-spacing in between, but rather as a continuous sequence. This is known as a "procedural signal" or "prosign", where the dots and dashes don't represent text per se, but have a special meaning in transmission. Another example of a morse code prosign is .-.-. which means "end of message". See more prosigns here


How do you use it?
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As this is a code, rather than a cipher, to use morse it is a simple matter of replacing each letter in your message with the relevant series of dots and dashes. Here they are:


Then all you have to do is decide how to send it.
As mentioned above, there are a variety of ways you could send morse code. Another example is of miners who used short and long tugs on a rope to communicate with the others above them.

So, for all my loyal followers, here is a little competition for you. Think of an imaginative way you could send a message in morse code. PM me your answer and the person who thinks of most creative way will win a totodile! You can enter as many ideas as you want, but please send them in the same PM. Deadline is 12pm 30th April (pokeheros time). Have fun!


As this is a code, rather than a cipher, there is no "How do you crack it?" section this week.

Next week, the spotlight is on the book cipher.